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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
948
   |
Posted - 2013.02.05 03:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:The only thing about adjusting null sec that'd be a problem is if its done wrong, it'd just solidify existing alliances further, and just continue the status quo, except they'd be able to exert even more influence outside of it than they already do and be even harder to stop as they could afford to put more towards their own protection... so yeah, I can see why they aren't in a rush to do that.
I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FRIENDS TO TAKE SOV SO NO ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
948
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:So you wardec the NPC corp. This buys you lots of targets, but the freighter pilot shifts to a 2-person corp. You then wardec that corp, the player moves to a new corp.
This is precisely why wardec evasion needs to be fixed and NPC corps need to go away. This sort of **** provides nearly complete safety in high-sec except from suicide ganking, which is quite avoidable unless you're a complete idiot. We almost have Trammel here in EVE for ****'s sake. 
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
949
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:This is precisely why wardec evasion needs to be fixed and NPC corps need to go away. This sort of **** provides nearly complete safety in high-sec except from suicide ganking, which is quite avoidable unless you're a complete idiot. We almost have Trammel here in EVE for ****'s sake. My opinion differs. What is needed is to fix industry so that you need to enter lowsec and nullsec to make the big profits. What is needed is to fix industry so that you cannot supply mountains of titanium in the form of passive targeters and 425mm rail guns. So you need more freighters, you need supply caravans, you need escorts, you need to have vulnerabilities.
My opinion actually isn't that far off: You either fix wardec evasion or you nerf high-sec to ****. Fixing industry so it's crap in high-sec and much better to run out of a POS in low, null, or WH space would be a big step forward. The only thing left after that is to nerf high-sec grind profits.
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
949
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:"Fixing" wardec evasion only provides a means for players to grief others out of the game.
Incorrect. There are many motives aside from that for starting a war and if wardec evasion were more limited you'd probably see those reasons come to light. Furthermore, need I remind you that griefing is a bannable offense?
Mara Rinn wrote: Hisec industry doesn't need to be nerfed to crap, it just needs to be put entirely in player hands. The only "nerf" really needed is to fix POS refineries, add POS reprocessing plants, and turn all refineries & reprocessing plants into activity lines with finite throughput. Well, that, and severely restricting the number of NPC activity lines of any type.
Yes, nerfed to ****. High-sec should only support medium or small towers as well, mainly because the limit on cap ships. If you want industry to be profitable outside of high-sec you must remove the lion's share, and more, of NPC lines.
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
952
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 14:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Or, you could suck it up and pay the price to kill those you cannot kill legally. Why is that concept so abhorrent to you?.
This is interesting. Would you say CCP set the wardec costs too low or too high? How much do you think someone should pay to "kill the unkillable"?
I ganked a Tengu in a player corp with some guys back when wardecs were 2mil. It cost us an estimated 14mil (plus sec status, but no one cares about that) and the guy lost roughly 500mil, maybe a bit more.
Now wardecs cost 50mil per week on the cheap, but arty Thrashers are still < 2mil a pop.
The best part is that CCP says we're "paying for targets" when we declare war, but those targets are free to drop or hop corp. Some value, huh?
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
952
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 15:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:I think this is actually more part of the 'problem' that war's cannot be 'won'.
These sorts of statements always crack me up. Defenders have the exact same toolset as the wardec corps use, and in fact have more now that they can recruit allies and set bounties. Wars need no "objectives" in a sandbox, and they can easily be "won" by defenders.
So what do you think about the wardec costs and "paying for targets"?
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
952
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 16:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:I edited in the post I was referencing, it explains it better.
Actually, it doesn't. It's a **** argument. Everyone in the sandbox has the same tools available to them (for the most part, null-sec is another matter). Adding something for the attacker to defend won't actually change current defender behavior.
Morrigan LeSante wrote:What I know is that I've seen enough pinyatas explode around mission hubs in a shower of purple and blue tagged mods that there's absolutely no argument that people in NPC corps are somehow 'immune' to PewPew.
That's what's called "ganking for profit" and it's an entirely different beast. It is incredibly easy to avoid being a "gank for profit" victim. Wardecs can have more meaning, such as disrupting an alliance's supply lines or interrupting industry, the problem is that it's so easy to evade them.
Morrigan LeSante wrote:It just costs 'more' to do - and that is something that people in favour of wardecs seem to have issue with
Citation needed.
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
956
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Citation? It's common in any thread, including this one, that people claim it's a problem, or "not enough".
I haven't seen any posts by people complaining that ganking is too expensive compared to wardecs in this thread. I'm fairly certain Bat Country would contest that point considering how much they make ganking freighters.
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Why is it so important that you be able to attack people without real consequence?
Please explain. Not too long ago my corp wardecced another and we got our asses handed to us. I'd call that some real consequence.
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Why are they deccing Johnny Industry and not the goons/red federation/etc?
Why would you wardec a null-sec alliance? That would be a waste of money since you can simply go to null and shoot them. If we didn't have NPC corps it might be worthwhile since they'd have to put their haulers under a banner of some sort that could be wardecced, but right now it'd be stupid to do so.
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Why is it so wrong that people should be able to play the game their way in the sandbox?
Why is it so wrong for people to bring spaceship PVP to others as a playstyle in the sandbox?
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Why do you have an issue with people taking steps within the game to stop you shooting them without consequence?
I take steps to avoid people shooting me every time I undock, why should I expect less of others?
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
958
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 21:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:If suiciding and other measures were impossible I would agree, but that situation does not exist.
Please cite these "other measures" one can use to non-consensually blow up ships in high-sec, since we've already ruled out wardecs.
If you're not already part of a bloc, this is the best guy for CSM8. |
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